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Allo genos
We should also point out to others on this forum the discovery made in Malachai 4:1 in the Greek Septuagint regarding "allo genos": Sir Lancelot Brenton's translation of the Greek Septuagint: http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Malachi/4.html
http://apostolicbible.com/downbook.htm
The following confirmation that "allogenos" means "aliens" and not "proud" is directly from a Greek speaker whose own translations have been changed only recently from "aliens" to "proud". Why this sudden change in the definition of an ancient Greek word which dates back 5,000 years?:
The Hebrew word from which "proud" was translated is "zed", Strong's #2086, which appears 13 times in Scripture, 12 times as "proud" and once as "presumptious". The Greek phrase from which "alien" was translated is "allo genos", an entirely different concept than "proud". If the Greek Septuagint was translated from the original Hebrew language, then whatever word was there could not possibly have been "zed", or it could not possibly have meant "proud".
Since NONE of the original Hebrew text survives, we will never know what Hebrew phrase or word or concept the ISRAELITES considered to be "allo genos" in Greek. The sense of this phrase is "other race", making "alien" the most likely translation. To attempt to characterize this phrase, let's consider the following 13 verses which contain "zed": proud are risen against me, and the assemblies of violent men have sought after my soul; and have not set thee before them. O God, transgressors have risen up against me, and an assembly of violent men have sought my life; and have not set You before them. Psa 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments.You have rebuked the proud; cursed are they that turn aside from Your commandments. Psa 119:51 The proud have had me greatly in derision: yet have I not declined from thy law.
Psa 119:69 The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart.
Psa 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.
Psa 119:85 The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.Transgressors told me idle tales; but not according to Your law, O Lord. Psa 119:122 Be surety for thy servant for good: let not the proud oppress me.
Pro 21:24 Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath.[Psalms 21 ends at verse 13 in the apostle's bible] Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.And I will command evils for the whole world, and will visit their sins on the ungodly: and I will destroy the pride of transgressors, and will bring low the pride of the haughty. Jer 43:2 Then spoke Azariah the son of Hoshaiah, and Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the proud men, saying unto Jeremiah, Thou speakest falsely: the LORD our God hath not sent thee to say, Go not into Egypt to sojourn there:that Azariah son of Maasaeas spoke, and Johanan, the son of Kareah, and all the men who had spoken to Jeremiah, saying, It is false! The Lord has not sent you to us, saying, Enter not into Egypt to dwell there [note: proud is completely missing from the apostles' bible, and this chapter is not online in Brenton's translation] Mal 3:15 And now we call the proud happy [actually, blessed]; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered. [note: even the KJV translated "ashar" [#833] as "blessed" 7 times, and as "happy" only twice, once in this verse and once in another verse, indicating their tendency to alter meanings of words to conceal the huge impact this verse has on the spirit and intent of the entire Holy Bible. Had they been consistent and translated it as "blessed", then they would have to question why they translated "allo genos" as "proud" rather than "aliens"--or "strangers" as Brenton translated it].And now we pronounce strangers blessed; and all they who act unlawfully are built up; and they have resisted God, and yet have been delivered. And now we pronounce strangers blessed; and all they who act unlawfully are built up; and they have resisted God, and yet have been delivered. Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. For, behold, a day comes burning as an oven, and it shall consume them; and all the aliens, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that is coming shall set them on fire, saith the Lord Almighty, and there shall not be left of them root or branch. For behold, a day comes burning as an oven, and it shall consume them; and all the aliens, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that is coming shall set them on fire, says the Lord Almighty, and there shall not be left of them root or branch. Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.And spare Your servant from the attack of strangers; if they do not gain the dominion over me, then shall I be blameless, and I shall be clear from great sin. It's not until we get to the last verse, where this noun is changed to a pronoun, and the word "sins" is added by the translators, that we understand that the KJV translation is in error and the Greek Septuagint is correct. When a noun is arbitrarily converted into a new meaning and the translators need to resort to adding words and thoughts which aren't there to make it fit their preconceived biases, we know they misunderstood or mistranslated this word, and the Greek Septuagint is correct. While the Apostles' Bible is not consistent with the translation of this word in EVERY verse, this translation of Psalms 19:13 is proof enough that the word which was originally there MUST have meant "aliens" and not "proud".
THE
GREEK SEPTUAGINT IS IN THE GREEK LANGUAGE. ANYONE
WHO QUOTES ANY PART OF A VERSE IN ENGLISH SAYING IT IS FROM THE GREEK
SEPTUAGINT IS A LIAR. Would
you buy swamp land in Florida? Well
then don't listen to someone who quotes you from the "Greek
Septuagint" -- a document written in ancient Greek -- using ENGLISH words. THIS
IS AS PHONY AS SOMEONE TRYING TO PAY YOU WITH A $3
BILL. Those
who translate the Bible into modern English, must be FLUENT in the ancient Greek and
ancient Hebrew, familiar with the CULTURE of
the day (to know what idioms and references were used to express ideas) and
WELL-READ in the ancient language. EVERY RECOGNIZED TRANSLATION REJECTS what the
Christian Identity Heretics are trying to say. THERE
ARE NO -- NO -- RECOGNIZED TRANSLATIONS BY QUALIFIED
EXPERTS WHO AGREE WITH THE CI HERETICS. NONE. You
can compare different translations of the same text at:
You
see the word "operation." What does that mean?
a) A computer process?
b) A medical procedure?
c) A military campaign? d)
A covert intelligent action?
e) The use of a machine?
f) Driving a vehicle? AN
AMATEUR CANNOT LOOK AT A WORD IN THE ORIGINAL AND KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE THAT WORD.
Only someone who is fluent in the original language AND WELL-READ IN THE CULTURE OF THE
ERA can correctly translate the passage. Jon
Moseley
-----Original
Message----- JOHN>
et.all..I was wrong when I noted
that the Greek word allotrios (alien
strangers) was in the Septuagint version of Malachi 4:1...It is rather the Greek
word, Allogenes
which does apply to kinsmen strangers...Hence the implication for these words of verse
1 could very well apply to Israelites as you noted.. I note that our alien
contestant, Moseley had stated that there was no Greek/English version of the
Septuagint...He apparently has not been introduced to the Lancelot Brenton
Version....but, like the jews of old, they too could not face
the wording of the Septuagint from old times, and as a result, they started work in 500
A.D. on a Hebrew version of the Bible...and it became the corrupted Masoretic
Text....which was first given to the Pope in 913 A.D.. and now, we suffer with
this Talmudic influenced rendition of the Bible....Note too, that when the quotes of the
Lord and His disciples are found in the New Testament, they DO NOT FOLLOW the wording of
the Masoretic Text of the SAME Bible...rather they become
direct quotes from the Septuagint....JRN
-----
Original Message ----- From:
Jon Moseley
-
Hide quoted text - ONLY
AN IDIOT WOULD DO THAT. THE
CONCORDANCE IS NOT A TRANSLATION. YOU
CANNOT READ THE GREEK SEPTUAGINT IN ENGLISH. There IS NO Greek Septuagint in English. YOU
MUST READ ONE OF THE PROPER TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE. Jon
Moseley
-
Hide quoted text - -----Original
Message----- John..I recommend going to the Septuagint and reading Malachi 4:1
there...It refers to "aliens" as is noted, thus
the verse is not applicable to the Israelites as is assumed. What the Septuagint Greek
uses is the Greek word, "Allotrios"
(see p.1130) to depict this "alien" people being referred to in Malachi
4:1...Which makes much more sense, as we know from what the Lord says about those who will
be removed
before the harvest,
the Tares--burned as Malachi also depicts....-such a conclusion or similarity derives
from what Malachi 4:1 has to say..JRN
-
Hide quoted text - -----
Original Message ----- From:
Jacob Israel Dear
Colonel, <<<I
do not think that the Greek word "allogenes" was a
creation of the Septuagint translators, and this inference by your friend would imply that
the Septuagint is not proper...But, it is far more accurate in its Greek which has not
suffered the dramatic changes that Hebrew has gone through....>>> It
was my observation, not his, that this word was a
Greek approximation of a Hebrew word which we don't know for certain what it
was. When trying to translate from one language to another, even languages which are
very similar, there are always many words where there is literally no direct one to one
comparison, and the concept must be approximated. There is a Greek word, "tuphoo" [#5187] which DOES mean "proud", so if
"the proud" is who Malachai 4:1 is referring to,
then this should have been the word they used.
From:
ricniemela@earthlink.net John,
et.al... I
find that your friend, Bet is a bit off in depicting the proper use and source of the
Greek word, "Allogenes"...which
speaks to and refers exclusively to a
Kinsman,
a stranger who is kin, but still a stranger to another Israelite...In Stongs
Concordance, this word "allogenes",
# 241, which means, according to Strongs, "foreign,
not a Jew --stranger.
It is a compilation of the Greek word, "allos",
#243 which translates as "else,
different, another." Strongs does
not
associate it with race or nationality. The other half of the Greek word "Allogenes" --
"genes",
is taken from the Greek word "genos",
#1085 and refers to "kin"
or a born
country-man which is
tied together to form the word "Allogenes"
to depict a kinsman
stranger
as opposed to an alien stranger... An alien
individual/person is depicted in the Greek language as being an "allotrios",
#245 in Strongs..which depicts it
as being: "from
243, anothers, i.e.,not one's own,
by extension, foreign, not akin, hostile, alien, (man's, men's), strange. From
Strongs we can determine that the Hebrew words for alien
strangers, "nokriiy"
and "Zuhr",
racial strangers and alien to the nation of Israel can be directly translated into the
Greek word, "Allotrios"...properly..
But,
we must recognize that we are dealing with some deceit in our Bible
translations, especially when we consider the grossly mistranslated Masoretic
Text of our OT... The
original KJV has suffered from using the Masoretic Text
uncorrected and this has led to considerable mistaken interpretations and doctrinal
issues... How, some would ask.. Well consider this
mistranslation alone -- that of the Strangers depicted in Isaiah 56: 3 & 6 where
in God is speaking and advising that the Israelties show favor
to the son
of the stranger...(There
are a number of other similar mistaken translations) If
we look in the Hebrew Old Testament text of the Masorettes,
we find that they used the Hebrew word "nokriiy"
for this particular stranger that Isaiah 56:3 & 6 are recording. (See Strongs) .and as a result, one would assume that God had somehow
"changed" His own laws and requirements as to the Israelites and their
association and relationship with alien strangers...as the assignment of the Hebrew word
"nokriiy"
by the Masorettes would seem to infer that God no
longer cared if the Israelites comingled with the aliens..... Really,
a gross error, but probably purposeful by the Jewish Masoretes
in their 500 years of re-creating a Hebrew language Bible, far different than what the
Greek of the Septuagint has to offer...Remember, the Septuagint was created in 285
B.C. from the Old Hebrew, sans vowels, and from the oldest texts and scrolls...Few of
which were available after 70 A.D. to the
later Talmudic Masoretes who began their work in 500
A.D..They had the Greek Septuagint to use, but failed to follow its verses, as many of
them were so conflicting with their own Jewish demands and hopes...and they added vowel
points as well, often erroneously.. Changes to the original
texts, which are proven by the OT words found quoted by Jesus and His disciples in the
current NT...these translations are from the Septuagint, the
Bible that Jesus used and thus, "authenticated." Now,
if we go to the Greek of the Septuagint and check how these sons
of the stranger
in Isaiah 56 were depicted, it shows the word properly
to be "allogenes",
a Kinsman stranger, which would be in agreement with how God had insisted that no alien
stranger be permitted near any religious functions or the temple--only a kinsman stranger
was permissable, and hence we find that both the Greek and the
Hebrew were quite specific in how they depicted a "stranger"..each having at least 5 different words to depict a
"stranger." The Laws were very explicit on this point, yet we find that
the "Universalism" of the Catholic Church has led to the mistaken assumption
that all are acceptable to God....when they are NOT! And He has so advised! This
multiple wording for strangers is contrary to the English which uses only one
word, "stranger" collectively..for any type of
Stranger, a subterfuge which has led to such confusion..and our
current multiculturalism, diversity and rampant ecumenism!! And verses like
those in Isaiah 56 improperly translated are to blame, but in the end, it is the deviant
Jewish Masoretes who were responsible, and or their subsequent
allies in crime. I
do not think that the Greek word "allogenes" was a
creation of the Septuagint translators, and this inference by your friend would imply that
the Septuagint is not proper...But, it is far more accurate in its Greek which has not
suffered the dramatic changes that Hebrew has gone through....Remember too, that Hebrew
was no longer a common language in Jesus' time...It had even died out in Jerusalem by the
time that the Septuagint was written, in 285 B.C..so I would
submit that we must remain tied to the Greek which was the language mostly in use during
those times... Latin, however,should
not be considered as valid, and its use only adds to the confusion of translations...for
example, the English word, "Gentile", taken from the Latin word "
Gentilis"
simply means "non-Jew." But, somehow, we find this word Gentile injected into the Bible as far back
as Genesis!! When Latin had not yet been formed as a language!! Further,
the word Gentile has been used as a term to depict "pagans, nation(s), heathen,
another, people, a total of 557 times in the Masoretic
Text...giving multiple "options" to the translators...when it really meant
nation(s)... Such
a misuse of Latin is another of the Bible's problems and we should recognize that our
Catholic friends as well as the Masoretes had their own
purposes in skewing the Word....and changing doctrines.. Thanks
for Listening... JRN
Thanks for making those many great points. I would like to clarify one point about the following observation:
It
was my observation, not his, that this word was a
Greek approximation of a Hebrew word which we don't know for certain what it
was. When trying to translate from one language to another, even languages which are
very similar, there are always many words where there is literally no direct one to one
comparison, and the concept must be approximated. There is a Greek word, "tuphoo" [#5187] which DOES mean "proud", so if
"the proud" is who Malachai 4:1 is referring to,
then this should have been the word they used. |
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Modified Friday, July 04, 2008 Copyright @ 2007 by Fathers' Manifesto & Christian Party |
